As Stop & Shop mulls redevelopment plans for a new Vineyard Haven store, it wants to demolish the Caleb Prouty House.
The Caleb Prouty House is tucked behind a tangle of bushes and brambles off Cromwell Lane, a vestige of 19th-century Greek revival architecture that survived the 1883 fire that destroyed much of downtown Vineyard Haven.
Stop & Shop acquired ownership of the old house in 2012, and as the company mulls redevelopment plans for a new Vineyard Haven store, it came before the Martha’s Vineyard Commission Thursday night with a somewhat probing request to demolish the home.
At a public hearing, Island attorney Geoghan Coogan said Stop & Shop wants to know what it can do with the vacant house before developing a broader plan for the Water street grocery store.
“We know that you are not going to allow us to demolish it. We are realistic about that,” Mr. Coogan said. “But we can’t develop the site with that house there. It doesn’t work for us. It’s too costly.”
Demolition of the house has come before the commission twice before, in 2013 and 2015. In the Public Archaeology Lab conducted a survey of the house and determined that it was eligible for listing in the National Register of Historic Places. Although it was never listed, the report said the house had historical significance.
“It stands as an excellent local example of a moderately high-style Greek Revival resident in Tisbury, remaining both a well-preserved exterior and almost pristine interior first floor,” the PAL report said.
Seven years later, the home is in a much more serious state of disrepair, Mr. Coogan said, showing the commission photographs of interior decay and rubble. He said the main wish is for the commission to allow Stop & Shop to relocate the home.
He said the store had looked into remodeling and using it as worker housing, but planners ultimately felt that wouldn’t efficiently serve the store’s housing needs.
“Our goal with this, just to be blunt, is to allow us to move it off the site,” Mr. Coogan said.
In a wide-ranging discussion, commissioners aired a variety of concerns. Some said a large part of the historic value of the home lies in its location, hidden away but facing the water, a rare vestige of historic downtown Vineyard Haven. Others thought a move might be a better way to acknowledge history in a more visible spot.
“For me, one of the big things that makes this a historic house is the location because it survived the great fire of 1883, being in the middle of the devastation,” commissioner Fred Hancock said. “The location is kind of important to its historic value. To judge whether it could be moved off site, I would like to see the rest of site plan.”
Mr. Coogan, countered by pointing out that most Islanders — and even most Vineyard Haven residents — are unaware of the property because it’s not visible. Commissioner Kathy Newman agreed.
“It’s in a place nobody notices,” she said. “It’s not contributing to history really. I guess it’s an interesting thing to think about. Sort of like the tree in the forest — if nobody hears it fall, there’s a little bit of that there. How can we make this little piece of history live again, because right now it is kind of dead?”
Commissioner Clarence (Trip) Barnes 3rd, who has moved houses, said this one probably wasn’t worth the effort. He said in his opinion the staircase was the only part of the house with true historic value. He estimated that more than 30 overhead wires would have to be taken out to accommodate a move too.
“Any funky fun old stuff has already been taken out of there,” Mr. Barnes said. “It’s had its day. Time to kiss it goodbye.”
Ben Hall Jr., an Island attorney representing abutting landowners, echoed the difficult predicament for both Stop & Shop and the commission.
“It’s really cool, but it’s such a tough move. There’s nowhere to take it without carving it up,” Mr. Hall said. “It has to go somewhere nearby but I don’t think there’s anywhere that would accept it . . . you guys have a tough decision.”
Commissioners noted that it would be easier to evaluate the merits of tearing down or moving the house if they had more perspective on the proposed Stop & Shop project itself.
Commissioner Gail Barmakian said she wanted to see a plan for the property if the commission allowed a move, and another plan it didn’t. Ben Robinson expressed similar sentiment.
“Stop & Shop could try to honor the history embedded in this site,” Mr. Robinson said. “Then if that doesn’t work, give concrete reasons why it wouldn’t work.”
The public hearing was continued to Nov. 7.
Comments
Why does “historical value”
‘‘Tis needs progress MVWhy does “historical value” trump all else? The entire population of the town and summer visitors have been pleading for a better supermarket - something virtually every resident will use and appreciate. That the house survived the fire and is a great example of a particular architectural style are fine, but seem highly impractical given the pressing modern demands. Move the house, preserve the architecture, and address the massive challenges that today’s resident face with this hideous and broken down supermarket.
Try moving that house and it
Ann TexasTry moving that house and it will probably collapse or something. I would personally hate to lose another part of our history. Put the grocery store somewhere else. We are losing too much of our history as it is. Use it as a museum or something.
Perhaps move it to the new
Michelle NYCPerhaps move it to the new Museum and have a permanent exhibit about the fire of 1883 - if it can be moved at all.
That’s a great idea
Mary Vineyard HavenThat’s a great idea
Excellent suggestion if it is
Ann New YorkExcellent suggestion if it is financially feasible. If not perhaps photos and move the staircase which is described as amazing.
This is the best idea I’ve
Barbara EdgartownThis is the best idea I’ve heard yet! They have plenty of room there. I really hope this amazing piece of history does not get demolished.
The place has past it's
Wendy Paradise West ChopThe place has past it's windows of opportunity to be salvaged. Cull the good architectural features to be used elsewhere. Reclaim any wood for other historic renovations. My family has saved homes as old as 1834 in West Dennis. Lifted them added basements, all new sills, rafters, plumbing, heating... gut jobs "stem to stern". In an ideal world it would be great to preserve it. It serves the owners and the town to take it down as it has reached the point in real estate what is called an "attractive nuisance". A place that deteriorates, someone gets hurt trespassing..usually kids or burned to the ground because of vandals.
Wendy Paradise I hear you, it
Figure it out EdgartownWendy Paradise I hear you, it needs to go but you state it serves the owner and the town to take it down. The point of the article is that it has nothing to do with what the owners want or the town. It is the MVC calling the shots.
In Washington DC there have
David Dow Lakewood ColoradoIn Washington DC there have been some new construction projects that incorporated just the facades of the historic buildings into the exterior of the new structures as an architectural feature. It actually turned out very well!
I’m all for salvaging
DownislanderI’m all for salvaging worthwhile structures, but let’s face it, this location has outgrown and outdeveloped the house. If the MVC were so concerned, they should have done something about before it got to the point where it cannot be practically salvaged. And even if it could, who is going to do finance that and for what purpose? I agree with Trip. Time to let go of silly attachment to rot and mold.
Please, how many more hoops
AB OBPlease, how many more hoops are we going to make Stop&Shop go through before they can have their new store there?
If the town doesn't want to
EH West TisIf the town doesn't want to take the house site through eminent domain;
If the museum doesn't want to pay to take it;
If they can't give it away to anyone else....
it's time to tear it down.
Allowing the occasional teardown (like this) will keep the Island vitalized, and thereby preserve much more than it would otherwise lose through stagnation.
At some point, value has to be determined by the buyer. The town, commission, and historical folks have tried and failed to find a buyer. it's time to let this one go.
Tear it down then fumigate
Very Annoyed Vineyard HavenTear it down then fumigate area --- it's nasty back there. Stop and Shop is doing this town favorite by improving the area!!!!
What I haven't read in the
James A. Garfield Wakefield, RIWhat I haven't read in the article, or comment section, is a rubuke for the willful neglect of the house by Stop and Shop. When they acquired the property the description was: “It stands as an excellent local example of a moderately high-style Greek Revival resident in Tisbury, remaining both a well-preserved exterior and almost pristine interior first floor,” the PAL report said.
Seven years later, the home is in a much more serious state of disrepair, Mr. Coogan said."
So, after not lifting a finger to maintain the "well preserved exterior and almost pristine interior first floor", S&S is using the condition of the house as a reason for not preserving it in it's current location? They knew seven years ago what they were getting into, and their demolition by neglect is shameful at best.
I would argue that S&S, to be a good corporate neighbor, needs to restore the house and work around it, or at worst pay to move the house and restore it. This giant Dutch corporation has the deep pockets to afford this, and they owe it to the town, after letting the house deteriorate to such a sad state.
Stop & Shop owes the town
T Bone Oak BluffsStop & Shop owes the town nothing. Leadership jerked them around several years ok, just like Santander was jerked around over its roofing project. If I was a company doing business in Tizbury I'd move out as soon as I could.
" I would argue that S&S, to
Islander Too Tisbury" I would argue that S&S, to be a good corporate neighbor, needs to restore the house and work around it, or at worst pay to move the house and restore it. This giant Dutch corporation has the deep pockets to afford this, and they owe it to the town, after letting the house deteriorate to such a sad state. "
Hear! Hear!
Very well said. The MVC didn't hesitate to impose a financial cost to those who demolished the Merry house. Let them flex their muscles again in defense of Vineyard Haven's architectural legacy. Ahold has the $$$, of that you can be sure. The company is
#302 on the Forbes Global 2000 list, worth $28 billion or so. It is #212 on the Forbes Growth Champions 2018.
https://www.forbes.com/companies/royal-ahold-delhaize/#76e4587e33df
Doubtless out little town is a "growth" locus for the giant Dutch corporation. The Netherlands are very history conscious and have developed all sorts of technologies to restore and move things. Let's see them bring that historic consciousness over here. And stop playing this town for suckers with the "Now it is too late . . ." argument.
Yah dah Yah dah . . .
Actually the company had
Islander Too tisburyActually the company had sales of $78 billion last year.
That is one way to spell "j-u-g-g-e-r-n-a-u-t."
But let's focus on "not":
Not. Not here.
Yesterday a local businessman who has three commercial tenants in his Main Street property opined that Tisbury has to get out in front of this process and let S&S know clearly the Town's parameters and bottom line for this most complex, heavily used corner of the whole island. A maximum size for an in-town store. Not a destination super-S&S---we do not have the parking capacity to draw people here for their "big shop." Doing so degrades the experience of Vineyard Haven for everyone else, including the clientele of existing business owners. The town should inform S&S that the Caleb Prouty house must be retained, either on-site or nearby. And, they pay for it. They bought it as a historic structure, and that is what they own. A Planning Board member told me that by law the owner of a historic structure is obliged by law to maintain it. So, it seems to me that that is where we start: Directing S&S to obey the law and correct the depredations of the past 7 years. Here is a useful discussion of what towns can do to prevent "demolition by neglect":
"Maintenance Requirements [headline]
. . . Many ordinances . . . require that designated property be kept structurally sound and may empower a commission to make repairs and seek reimbursement in instances where a property is essentially being demolished by neglect.
An increasing number of communities have also adopted provisions in their preservation ordinances to prevent a practice often described as "demolition by neglect." Such provisions enable a city or town, following notice and hearing, to make essential repairs to prevent situations whereby a building or structure must be demolished to remove a public safety hazard. Expenses are often recouped by imposing a lien on the property."
---https://forum.savingplaces.org/learn/fundamentals/preservation-law/loca…
This is our town.
We need to take the lead in determining and then conveying to S&S our wishes and our limits.
This is a common practice of
Marie Vineyard HavenThis is a common practice of many folks who wish to redevelop old properties in many communities. In Vineyard Haven we have the Hancock building on Beach Road, the demolition of the mill house, the chronic neglect and close vote to demolish the 1928 Tisbury School, etc., and now this. If it is torn down to make room for a bigger grocery store in an already very congested area, we will lose a few more inches in the fabric of the quality of life in Tisbury.
Quality of life in Tisbury???
Kelce OBQuality of life in Tisbury??? Living in OB I've seen nothing but a shameful decline in Tisbury over the years. I used to spend time there, but it's been years since I've done that, and now only when I have to catch a ferry. In my eyes the town is an embarrassment.
I agree with Mr Garfield.
Julie robinson West TisburyI agree with Mr Garfield. Stop and Shop should have maintained it in good condition over the last 7 years that they have owned it instead of letting it fall apart from neglect.
Somebody buy it for a dollar,
David OBSomebody buy it for a dollar, tear it down, and build a net-zero energy house or apartment/condo building and make a mint and help the environment. It would be perfect for "seniors" - close to center of town, buses and the ferry! And potentially no energy costs forever.
I agree with Ben's position.
Islander Too TisburyI agree with Ben's position.
Let's see what S&S have in mind. Let's require them to come up with something that incorporates some aspect of the house, or works around it.
I bet Ahold (the Dutch corp that owns S&S) have a cookie-cutter store in mind that allows for no deviation for local conditions and previously existing historic structures. A resourceful architect should be able to find a way to incorporate portions of the building in a new design.
It is a self-indictment to point out that the house has of course continued to decline in the past seven years. This kind of situation reinforces irresponsible decisions---namely, a decision to let time and natural processes to continue to downgrade the building until it is unsalvegeable.
I believe the MVC might consider taking a stand here and now to discourage owners of historical buildings from thinking they can get away with this de facto demolition mandate through neglect. We just had the loss of one historical house in VH. Let's fight a bit harder this time.
As for the building not being visible, again, a resourceful architect should be able to come up with ideas to make it visible, either to the street or to users of the store. Recall that there are supposed to be some plans under way for Cromwell Lane itself. Where are they and what do they show?
I agree. Sound thinking at
Sara Piazza EdgartownI agree. Sound thinking at work here.
I agree w/ James G. they
ECS ft lauderdaleI agree w/ James G. they bought that house with the intent of letting if deteriorate. Maybe the Cronigs will buy it to once again try to stiffel competition.
I think the owners of the
Steve B EdgartownI think the owners of the Mill House should take the Caleb Prouty house and relocate it to the site of their recent demolition. Tisbury and the MVC failed it letting that historic home disappear. Now they can remedy the situation.
So in the end, the real issue
Mr. B ChilmarkSo in the end, the real issue is location. The store is in a location that made sense when it was built (early 50's?) and the island's year 'round population was probably about 4,500. Now, the location is a real weakness and will only be the more so if the store and parking are expanded. With a really weak store there (and the staff do their best, I believe, despite the obvious limitations), the area is still very crowded when it comes to vehicular traffic. If you build a really nice store there, do you think that fewer people will come? And adding more parking spaces won't help--it will only encourage more people to drive to the area.
Consolidate both the VH and
Mark EdgartownConsolidate both the VH and Edgartown locations into a super stop and shop near the airport. Plenty of room, it's out of the way and centrally located and could be much much larger. Can then redevelop both existing locations into something more appealing aesthetically.
No thanks. Why would Stop &
Jason EdgartownNo thanks. Why would Stop & Shop, which owns its locations, want to pay rent to the Airport Commission? Plus, I have no desire to drive out to the airport for groceries. I'll take a remodeled store right where it is, please.
Terrible idea. The airport
Sara Piazza EdgartownTerrible idea. The airport business Park is only out of the way now because there is no super stop and shop there. This idea that keeps coming up, to relocate our in-town grocery stores to the airport, which for people who live in the outskirts seems like an enticing idea, is wrong on so many levels. Number one, the traffic jam that would be relocated to the center of the island would be massive, in part because you would be forcing even the people who can now walk or bike to the grocery store - and there are plenty of us - into their cars. Number two, a grocery store is the heart and soul of a community and provides much more than food. It also provides a sense of community and connection.
The current location already
Mark EdgartownThe current location already exacerbates the current traffic nightmare going into town and especially during Summer. Renovating and expanding will only make a bad situation worse. Starting over in a location much better suited for a large supermarket makes much more sense. I am sure S&S’s parent company would be happy to sell their landholdings to reap a massive gain and enter into a long-term lease agreement as is norm for most large scale retailers. Other access roads can be added to mitigate traffic flow form a location near the airport. Progress requires change and an open mind.
I vote NO on the further
Sara Piazza EdgartownI vote NO on the further dismantling of our communities through centralization and regionalization. Live Local.
How about just building a
Ken EDG.How about just building a store on the hinckley property.
"just build a store at
Islander Too Tisbury"just build a store at Hinckley'. . . "
whenever I hear the word "just" I groan.
So where would the parking lot be? How many feet above sea level?
Mainly, though, with an SUP running by the door, I can only foresee endless tangles between bikes and shoppers and trucks and the rest of the traffic on Beach Road. Fun!!
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