<p>A 10-month review of the Stop & Shop expansion plan came to a close Thursday night before the Martha’s Vineyard Commission. The plan has been a lightning rod for debate in Tisbury and around the Island.</p>
A 10-month review of the Stop & Shop expansion plan came to a close Thursday night before the Martha’s Vineyard Commission.
Commission hearing chairman Brian Smith brought the gavel down just after 10 p.m. after more than four hours of public testimony, much but not all of it against the plan that has galvanized discussion in Tisbury and around the Island over how best to rebuild and expand an anchor grocery store in the center of a congested downtown area.
Nat Benjamin: "I think we all feel that it should be small."
Nat Benjamin: "I think we all feel that it should be small."
“We’re asking you to go back to the drawing board and give us a plan that we can all be proud of and then we will be supportive,” Vineyard Haven resident Nevin Sayre said. “Please go back and give us a scale that is right for the size of our village.”
“I ask that you put things in perspective,” countered Tisbury selectman Jeffrey Kristal. “Life is short and Stop & Shop is not an assault on Island character. I urge you to approve this so we can move on to debate some other issues that we have on this Island.”
The comments came during the eighth and final public hearing before the Martha’s Vineyard Commission, where the proposal has been reviewed since last July as a development of regional impact (DRI). Stop & Shop wants to rebuild the Water street store by nearly doubling the entire size of the building and adding a 42-space parking garage on the first floor.
Size, scale, traffic and use of town property have all been points of concern during commission review.
The project has drawn widespread public interest and opinion. Two petitions are circulating for and against the expansion. A Facebook group was created last week to remind people to attend the commission meeting. The commission on Thursday printed stacks of correspondence that they’ve received from both sides.
Geoghan Coogan, the Tisbury attorney representing Stop & Shop, takes floor for final public hearing.
Geoghan Coogan, the Tisbury attorney representing Stop & Shop, takes floor for final public hearing.
Opponents and proponents crowded the Tisbury senior enter for the hearing. At the outset Tisbury fire chief John Schilling was on hand, concerned that the crowd exceeded the maximum capacity of 100 at the center. After a few crowd counts, the meeting was allowed to proceed.
It was the last night people could take the floor to speak, and public comment was running against the plan about two to one. Opponents cited concerns about the impact on traffic and parking in the area, which is across from the main and only year-round Steamship Authority terminal and near the busy Five Corners intersection. The Steamship Authority and the Vineyard Transit Authority have registered their concerns about the impact of an expanded store.
VTA director Angela Grant said at the hearing that mitigation offers from the developer so far have been vague. She asked that the VTA not “be left out in the cold” and said it is not in the community’s interest to lose bus passengers because of added traffic and delays. “The only way to mitigate that, in my opinion, is more bus service and that comes at a cost that should not be borne by taxpayers,” Ms. Grant said.
In a departure from previous meetings, two Tisbury selectmen spoke against the project. Selectman Tristan Israel called on the commission to turn down the proposal because of the scale and traffic concerns.
Selectman Jon Snyder said he was troubled on a number of levels.“My own personal opinion is that I find this design simply too large,” Mr. Snyder said. “It bothers me there is so much assumed to come from the town. I would also urge we go for a redesign, a smaller store, and not approve as it is.”
MVC hearing chairman Brian Smith brings gavel down, closing out a 10-month public review of grocery expansion plan.
MVC hearing chairman Brian Smith brings gavel down, closing out a 10-month public review of grocery expansion plan.
Tisbury planning board co-chairman Tony Peak said his board voted 4-0 Wednesday to ask “in the strongest terms for the Martha’s Vineyard Commission to deny the Stop & Shop proposal.”
“At this time the board has come to the conclusion that the project is too big and relies too much on public space and town resources to satisfy the basic elements of DRI requirements.” The letter goes on to say that the project is compatible with “a small, waterside New England village” and that there are concerns about surface water and pedestrian safety.
Planning board member Tony Peak said one member of the planning board is in support of the project but was not able to come to the meeting.
Nat Benjamin, a Vineyard Haven boatbuilder, year-round resident and longtime waterfront businessman, said he supported the idea of a grocery store in that location but had concerns about the size. “I think we all feel that it should be small,” Mr. Benjamin said. “This is a great opportunity for the commission to engage the public and Stop & Shop and find some common ground.”
“I want to commend you commissioners for enduring this process,” he continued. “Never have I sat through such a long discussion about food service without getting so much as a cheese and cracker out of it.”
Lilian Robinson, one leader in a petition campaign opposing the plan.
Lilian Robinson, one leader in a petition campaign opposing the plan.
Others said the new building would be a vast improvement on the existing store and said Stop & Shop provides community service and affordable groceries.
“I’m a father of three, and the Island continues to become more and more and more expensive every day,” said Roy Cutrer Jr., noting the high cost of groceries at other Island stores.
Bruce Lewellyn said a vibrant downtown needs to have basic services and Stop & Shop has the right to expand their store. “This beautiful, friendly, historic, anachronistic little Island is still a part of America,” he said.
“We seem to fight about everything these days. Schools, libraries, windmills, roundabouts and now a grocery store,” said Susan Murphy of Chilmark. She urged approval of the project, citing the need for affordable groceries and improvements to the Vineyard Haven harbor area.
The hearing began and ended with commissioners asking Stop & Shop representatives final questions about the project. Commissioner Joan Malkin asked pointed questions about a recent memorandum of understanding between the town of Tisbury and Stop & Shop that called for $1.16 million in mitigation money for the town if the proposal is approved. According to Mr. Israel, the agreement has not yet been signed.
“Do we read the agreement as relevant or not,” Ms. Malkin asked, saying that project was referred to the commission by the town of Tisbury, but the town proceeded to hold their own negotiations about the project.
“That strikes me as undermining what we’ve been established to do,” she said
Geoghan Coogan, a Tisbury attorney who is representing Stop & Shop, said the company engaged in negotiations with Tisbury at the suggestion of the commission’s counsel. “You can take that piece of paper and rip it up,” he said.
At the end of the meeting, Mr. Coogan said Stop & Shop has reduced the size of the project by 6,000 square feet since it was first before the commission, and that because of federal flood plain requirements, any significant remodeling of the building would a significant increase in height. He also pointed to the Steamship Authority as a source of traffic.
“It’s divisive,” he concluded. “We know that at end of the day . . . ultimately your decision as a board is to weigh benefits and to weigh detriments.”
The public hearing was closed, and according to usual MVC practice, the written record will remain open until May 8.
A deliberation and decision on the project is tentatively scheduled for June 5.
Comments
So there was a million plus
suspicionsSo there was a million plus offer to the town, there was a clause that the town would support the project, then the clause was deleted because it did not seem proper and Tristan wasn't there when it was negotiated, then two selectmen went against the project, there was a petition, and the attorney for the project, who was a former selectmen, tells the commission to tear up the agreement for a million plus to the town.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch... And of course, this is the largest building you can imagine and the Commission never looks at what the carbon footprint might be. It does appear that the process is not quite perfect. There actually could be an index by which buildings are measured to compare their carbon footprint to other buildings and when they are referred to the commission they must get past a stringent threshold to be approved. LEEDS or PASSIVE HOUSE INSTITUTE both have viable standards that could be applied. And why not?
I think it's fair to say that
Robin Lynch West TisburyI think it's fair to say that the most significant point of opposition involves the scale. The airport industrial park is where we mainly see buildings of this size. If Stop & Shop needs that scale, that's a locale where it would be appropriate. To approve the existing plan in order to "move on" to other pressing issues, as suggested by Mr. Coogan, would put us in a situation where we would act in haste and repent at leisure. We would live with it for a long, long time and I don't think anybody would be happy with the presence of this structure in the village if they were to see it built as planned.
Much has been made of the
Doug Ulwick Oak BluffsMuch has been made of the area, height, and parking relative to this proposal. It's as if the island has never seen anything of this size and scale and certainly not in downtown Vineyard Haven. Has everyone forgotten that about a block away sits the Mansion House ? Proudly rebuilt after the fire with full community support, according to the Tisbury Assessor's records it stands FOUR stories tall and has 45,830 square feet of living area. Unless I've missed it, it has very little in the way of parking. By comparison, Stop and Shop proposes only two stories and 30,000 square feet AND adds 41 parking spaces. Seems like a light weight in comparison. Hopefully the MVC will see through all the opposition hype and green light this project
Glad someone finally went
Mr. B. ChilmarkGlad someone finally went down that road. Thank you! And note that they charge more to be on the fourth floor so you can see the ferry terminal...
Yes, you have missed it. The
Marie TisburyYes, you have missed it. The Stop and Shop proposal is almost 50,000 square feet, 39-41 feet high, depending on the grade. Right now it is 14' high at the front on Water Street. Do the math. The Mansion House is up the hill on Main Street, not on the harbor, the gateway to Martha's Vineyard.
You're counting the parking
Ken Esq EdgartownYou're counting the parking lot in that square footage which shouldn't be done. You do realize because of rising sea levels they can't build at road level?
The garage is in an enclosed
Marie TisburyThe garage is in an enclosed space and is included in the square footage. Yes, I know that it is in a flood plain. Some day the parking garage will have moorings, and we can row up to the front door. They can do a nice renovation for now, please. They have let their store deteriorate, not the town.
The gateway to "the Island"
John Alley West TisburyThe gateway to "the Island" is an eyesore. The S ans S proposal has been before the MVC for about a year. If I understand from the newspapers modifications have been made and while I agree a "further review of the project" was helpful for all it is now time to make a decision. In my opinion and lots of them are buzzing around approve the project and get on with it!
I don't understand why it's
Dan ObI don't understand why it's so hard for the town to tell them no? I think the overall consensus is that We The people are not saying no to stop and shop, we are saying no to the current location. A building of this character and use does not belong on the water front. Especially in front of the steam ship. Everyone understands this. It's poor town planning, and now is the chance to correct it. It's that easy. We want you here stop and shop, just not at this location. There is plenty of town land that your million$ can buy.
Do you remember the Nobnocket
Tisbury voter TisburyDo you remember the Nobnocket project?that was turned down for a new stop and shop because of location.Maybe we the Town of Tisbury could have a none binding vote on this project .Also this is a perfect example of Government is way to big lets go back to local control,getting harder and harder to live here,very sad and towns are complaining about what our main streets on island are looking like it's from regulations ,the expense to do a change over,lawyers expense etc.also are all the signature from Miss.Robinson from local people who shop and live here,I'm willing to bet less than half are islanders? It's all very sad .
Are you really willing to
Lilian Robinson Vineyard HavenAre you really willing to make a bet about that, "Tisbury voter"? Many Islanders have signed the online petition--but you certainly don't have to be an Island resident in order to care about this island or want to prevent corporate encroachment here (or anywhere else). If you read the comments posted by signers, you will see that many visitors to this island strongly feel that it needs to be protected from overdevelopment. That's what distinguishes the Island from so many other communities which have been devitalized by non-locally owned multinational corporations like Stop & Shop's parent company, Ahold. Some of us care enough to take steps to prevent overdevelopment--we don't want this island to be just like the mainland.
For the record, I am not only a native of Tisbury but a voter who actually attends the town meetings, which are all about regulation at the local level. Regulation is needed, for the sake of accountability. Everyone in our society must be accountable for his or her actions. Multinational corporations are not exempt just because they have a lot of money and power. We citizens have the right to demand accountability from those who claim to serve us.
Who is this "We" you speak of
Ken Esq EdgartownWho is this "We" you speak of? It's certainly not the majority of year-round Islanders.
how about on VH/Edgartown rd,
vacation mikehow about on VH/Edgartown rd, central lovation but away from the SSA and downtown.
The "opposition" petition
Lilian Robinson Vineyard HavenThe "opposition" petition (online, at MoveOn.org) is still active and will remain that way until the MVC announces its decision. If you wish to sign and comment, you may do so here: http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/marthas-vineyard-commission
I do not wish to sign the
Island voter Martha's VineyardI do not wish to sign the petition, but I do wish to comment on it because it is so deceptive. Of the five points, 3 are untrue and unverified and all 5 contain untrue information. The 5 points, at core, are basically the same: Objection to scale and fear of disruption during construction. The rest of the petition is drama, scare tactics, and some major baloney. I do not find the scale of the project objectionable at all, but even if a smaller store is put on that site, construction means some disruption. A fairy godmother does not wave her magic wand to make a new store appear, with no inconvenience to anyone. I think the architectural renderings look very nice, not at all "big box", and certainly an enormous improvement to one of the most run-down and ugly spots on the island.
Petition, point by point:
1. Scale and character. The renderings do not show a big box store at all, so this point is your basic scare tactic and it is untrue. The proposal does not "dominate" height-- that would be the Mansion House, so again, an untrue and misleading point, and, frankly, deceptive. "Adversely change the unique historical and visual character" is what they said about the roundabout, too. An opposers opinion is not a truth. It is an opinion.
2. The "traffic impacts" point is unverified. I cannot find any of the "all studies agree" that traffic will increase by 5-15%. Where is one study saying that? I find a study saying "possibly up to 5% increase during peak hours". Where and by whom are the predictions of "serious disruptions to public transportation"? The public transportation, mainly the FERRY, is what causes the mess at 5 corners. But yes, common sense says that major construction at the S&S site will cause some disruption, no matter if they build bigger than planned or smaller. No matter what ends up being there, during construction there will be some disruption. To fix the eyesore, temporary disruption is part of the fix.
3. The "economic impacts" is also misleading and deceptive. Again, as in point 2, during construction there will be some disruption, but after construction? Mixing up "during and after" is deceptive. A cleaned up, pleasant, and attractive shopping experience at S&S is good for everyone, including other businesses in the area. Claiming that construction "would impede normal operations of many businesses Islandwide" is laughable. Who makes this stuff up?
4. The "environmental and quality of life impacts" point is repetitive. It again says disruption during construction. Fixing something takes patience and some inconvenience... and maturity. Alternatively, you can live with a dump. As to air, noise, and water concerns, I wonder if the petition writers looked at the plans at all. It seems like they just threw this point in there to use different words to say the same thing.
5. The "setting a precedent" point is not a point at all, but another repetition of scale, scale, scale, and a grandiose opinion (of "Island character") that is imposed using deception, incorrect information, and scare tactics.
But it's fun see all the off-island signers of this petition jumping on this latest "IN" Vineyard bandwagon, especially from far-away places like Australia.
http://petitions.moveon.org
Marie Tisburyhttp://petitions.moveon.org/sign/marthas-vineyard-commission
read it for yourselves.
Wow! thank you for that..
Grateful Oak Bluffs and New York CityWow! thank you for that...best summation I have read so far.
I am so interested in what
village Life VHI am so interested in what Doug has to say,
are you an informed voter here or just shooting from the hip?
Logically NOTHING should be on Water St. except things like Nat and Benjamin boat builders or the boat storage sheds like Packers. Why? because this is a FILLED FLOOD ZONE!
Not going to happen unless there are zoning changes and regulations. So for the time being we are stuck.
Since the pole came down of the S $ S building I urge you all to go stand in front of the P.O. and look over to the proposed site. Now imagine the building stretching from Water St. past the old Calib House hidden off Cromwell lane. Take from the top of the Telephone pole in front of the old Beetle Bung coffee shop and make a straight line from Water St to Cromwell Lane. That is going to be like the Berlin Wall.
As the opposition and the proponents have all said we want an anchor store in VH NOT this mass. Country/Village stores do work here on the island unlike what Mr. Coogan had claimed at this meeting. DO NOT believe for a moment that there are few people that will walk to the store. I live almost a half mile away and walk there. On my way I some days pass 2 or three people on their way back with S$S bags in their hands. DO NOT miss inform people with your position of authority. Clarity and unbiased information is the most important tool here.
Knowing and loving the
Nicola Spafford SwitzerlandKnowing and loving the Vineyard since 50 years it is hard to understand how anyone would
even think of putting a shopping centre just where visitors arrive, they can see enough
of those on the mainland and come to the Vineyard for a change, to appreciate and enjoy all
that Nature offers escaping from the madness of the Mainland - not more shopping.
Please think of the future generations and stop even considering spoiling your beautiful Island.
Living so far away you may
islander VHLiving so far away you may have missed some of the facts. The square footage of the sales floor is an increase of 4%. The building is tall because of new federal and state regulations. Every building on that street will eventually be as tall. This is not a new shopping center, it's been there for many decades. Visitors do not come to the Vineyard to see run down, dilapidated buildings. They can go to Detroit for that.
This is what is wrong: Stop
Marie TisburyThis is what is wrong: Stop and Shop does not really want us to know what they are doing. You can't get answers to the simplest questions. Your 4% is just another number. I heard 180%. Anyone else get a different number? Just say no to this DRI, MVC. Make them come back with a real plan, complete with drawings and a drainage plan, and stop this insanity. How can you even think of approving it? very sloppy.
more misinformation. It's way
aka Tsburymore misinformation. It's way, way more than 4%. That's what they want you to think. Call the MVC and ask. You may not have noticed what they are up to. that's o.k. What is not going to be o.k. is all the shocked faces when they see this almost 50,000 sq. ft., 39 ft. high building stretching from Water Street to Cromwell Lane, and from what is now the old Golden Dragon to the town's Parking lot. All they'll have to say is, "well, you asked for a new store!"
Take a ride to Maciel/MV
Ken Esq EdgartownTake a ride to Maciel/MV Marine and look at their office. They had to raise it up by close to 20-feet in order to get out of the flood zone. Get used to it...or find a drain plug for the ocean.
Stop and Shop has been doing
Marie TisburyStop and Shop has been doing a good job of kidding us. Prior to several public hearings ago, S&S had already inflated the square footage of their existing "grocery store" by adding the footage of Midnight Farm as "retail space" into the proposal. To these inflated numbers they are now adding the as yet to be merged lot of the Golden Dragon into their retail floor footage. Showing Midnight Farm and the Golden Dragon's square footage as part of the current square footage, and then saying that the new space "isn't much bigger" is quite inventive. It would be more fair to the community if they had said from the beginning, as was admitted at the public hearing last night, that the store will be 180% bigger than it is now.
I am against the stop and
Julie West TisburyI am against the stop and shop constructing such a large facility. No one is saying stop and shop can't clean up their building and incorporate the old Chinese restaurant into their facility.but it could be done with more taste and sensivity to their surroundings. There are many people who use this stop and shop so I think we do need a small grocery there to serve the visiting sailors, tourists and local citizens but we do not need a mega store. Last night a gentleman spoke about the problem with the waste water system and how it will be almost impossible for stop and shop to be able to install a large enough system to deal with the run off. That is a huge problem. There is no question that the present stop and shop and old Chinese restaurant are an eye sore so by all means renovate...all we are asking stop and shop is come back with something that we would all be proud of.
Maybe my thoughts are too
a mother of two edgartownMaybe my thoughts are too simple, but why couldn't Stop & Shop put a smaller store for basics in the current (Old Midnight Farm) space, which is aesthetically pleasing to shop in. Then build the big Stop & Shop at the airport, with plenty of parking and a location that is easier to get to in the summer traffic. On another note if Stop & Shop is giving away money why don't they fix up the Edgartown store starting with the entrance. I know I am not alone in the fight to get in and out of the store without bumping the doors and rail. It is an aggravating way to start and end your shopping experience. Do something Stop & Shop but do the right thing by the people that spend hard earned money every week.
Why is change so painful??
Sue morrisWhy is change so painful?? First it's the debates about the roundabout...and now this. You guys are never going to get anything accomplished with all these differing views. But I guess that's what is great about the vineyard right? Diversity.
Move the steamship terminal
Eileen TisburyMove the steamship terminal away from 4 corners.
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